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Separation from IRS
Quote from jgarland on December 23, 2023, 10:18 amI think it’s also important to note that the RoE is not the only way to separate yourself from the IRS. While it is a path used to recover 3 prior years of income taxes paid, it may not be the best choice nor is it the only option to notify the IRS of a change of status from US Citizen slave/taxpayer to National/non-resident alien.
For many, myself included, it is going to be a prohibitive measure to just stop paying taxes. Why could that possibly be? No one wants to pay taxes! Well that would be a correct assertion. Indeed I do not know anyone that wants to pay taxes, HOWEVER, think forward for just a moment. Do you plan to buy a new home in the future? Do you have an LLC which has the need to obtain an operating loan on an annual basis to pay for goods and services that the business could not afford to operate without a loan? This is by no means an all inclusive list of situations, but it’s intended to get you thinking long about the future. For many, myself included, I simply cannot, now, afford to operate my [new] business without an operating loan. As such, when I goto the bank, the banker requests (read that as he requires) a copy of my prior year tax return.
Will you now or in the future be required to provide a tax return for the purposes of obtaining any sort of loan in your personal or business life? Maybe you can’t even answer this because you simply do not know what the future holds!
I offer up an alternative to the (RoE) Revocation of Election which still results in the same outcome, albeit in a different way. It still accomplishes the important tasks:
- you notify the IRS of your status change to the new personality as a non-resident alien
- you recover each years funds paid to the IRS
Instead of submitting a RoE, send a cover letter to the IRS with a copy of your affidavit. That’s it. The IRS still changes your status in their system. Then, continue to pay your taxes into the system like a good little serf would. At the end of each tax year, file your taxes which gets you the alimighty tax return that many need to conduct business. However, THEN, submit the 1040X file immediately after you file your taxes and request all of the money paid to federal taxes be returned to you. Continue to do this each and every year. You keep a tax return which is very difficult to survive without AND you end up with all of your federal tax money back in your pocket. You are just providing the federal government with an interest free loan throughout the tax year which I think is a pretty fair trade-off for having a tax return in hand!
Comment below and let me know what you think.
I think it’s also important to note that the RoE is not the only way to separate yourself from the IRS. While it is a path used to recover 3 prior years of income taxes paid, it may not be the best choice nor is it the only option to notify the IRS of a change of status from US Citizen slave/taxpayer to National/non-resident alien.
For many, myself included, it is going to be a prohibitive measure to just stop paying taxes. Why could that possibly be? No one wants to pay taxes! Well that would be a correct assertion. Indeed I do not know anyone that wants to pay taxes, HOWEVER, think forward for just a moment. Do you plan to buy a new home in the future? Do you have an LLC which has the need to obtain an operating loan on an annual basis to pay for goods and services that the business could not afford to operate without a loan? This is by no means an all inclusive list of situations, but it’s intended to get you thinking long about the future. For many, myself included, I simply cannot, now, afford to operate my [new] business without an operating loan. As such, when I goto the bank, the banker requests (read that as he requires) a copy of my prior year tax return.
Will you now or in the future be required to provide a tax return for the purposes of obtaining any sort of loan in your personal or business life? Maybe you can’t even answer this because you simply do not know what the future holds!
I offer up an alternative to the (RoE) Revocation of Election which still results in the same outcome, albeit in a different way. It still accomplishes the important tasks:
- you notify the IRS of your status change to the new personality as a non-resident alien
- you recover each years funds paid to the IRS
Instead of submitting a RoE, send a cover letter to the IRS with a copy of your affidavit. That’s it. The IRS still changes your status in their system. Then, continue to pay your taxes into the system like a good little serf would. At the end of each tax year, file your taxes which gets you the alimighty tax return that many need to conduct business. However, THEN, submit the 1040X file immediately after you file your taxes and request all of the money paid to federal taxes be returned to you. Continue to do this each and every year. You keep a tax return which is very difficult to survive without AND you end up with all of your federal tax money back in your pocket. You are just providing the federal government with an interest free loan throughout the tax year which I think is a pretty fair trade-off for having a tax return in hand!
Comment below and let me know what you think.
Quote from David on December 23, 2023, 3:56 pmHello jgarland,
I understand your logic for sure and thank you for your feedback. A tax return for the needs you mentioned is a requirement in many cases. It's unfortunate but they get us coming and going as my grandmother used to say. I guess a goal for many may be to live life without loans if possible, as they are in themselves a form of servitude. Even providing the IRS withholdings for an entire year, even if it is returned, gets my goat you might say.
Regarding the ROE, again thank you for your input and information. The example provided in The Remedy section mentions to make sure that a cover letter and copy of your affidavit is sent to the IRS prior to submitting the ROE to them. This should be done as one of the notices sent out after submitting your original affidavit to the U.S. SOS. This essentially lays the foundation for the ROE I surmise. Perhaps giving them both will be beneficial, even though it may only require the affidavit and its cover letter.
Great conversation. Hoping more will opine to this topic.
David
Admin-NationalStatus.info
Hello jgarland,
I understand your logic for sure and thank you for your feedback. A tax return for the needs you mentioned is a requirement in many cases. It's unfortunate but they get us coming and going as my grandmother used to say. I guess a goal for many may be to live life without loans if possible, as they are in themselves a form of servitude. Even providing the IRS withholdings for an entire year, even if it is returned, gets my goat you might say.
Regarding the ROE, again thank you for your input and information. The example provided in The Remedy section mentions to make sure that a cover letter and copy of your affidavit is sent to the IRS prior to submitting the ROE to them. This should be done as one of the notices sent out after submitting your original affidavit to the U.S. SOS. This essentially lays the foundation for the ROE I surmise. Perhaps giving them both will be beneficial, even though it may only require the affidavit and its cover letter.
Great conversation. Hoping more will opine to this topic.
David
Admin-NationalStatus.info
Quote from jgarland on December 24, 2023, 9:26 amDavid, your last statement last paragraph is correct. Either form of notification, exclusive from the other is all that is necessary to notify the IRS and Dept. of Treasury as to the change of your political status.
My personal opinion is that for a new person who is just emerging themselves to all of this new information would be in the best position to just send the cover letter with a copy of affidavit to the IRS for the time being. I detailed how these two discrete different types of documents compare and contrast above. Then, the individual needs to spend a good 6 months to a year educating themselves to make a determination as to what is the best fit for their personal situation. I wholeheartedly agree with one of your earlier statements that we should all strive to live without debt because, in effect, we are contracting with the banking institutions. The way I see it is that using the method of getting all of your money back at the end of each year (and still continuing to have the benefit of a tax return IF/WHEN needed) should afford a responsible individual to begin getting themselves out of debt in relatively short timeframe with the money they no longer contribute to the IRS.
Anyway, I think for a new student who is just following a prescribed methodology it’s beneficial for them to know that they do not have to file an RoE and that in exchange for not getting those 3 prior years back, they can continue to pay in then get funds back at the end of each year for the beneficial use of the tax return in hand. I wish I had known this when I was going thru the steps. I did the RoE on my own without anyone else’s advice and later really needed a tax return in order to obtain a business operating loan.
Best of luck with your site here. I hope that you will be able to help many people to recover from the fraud that is surrounding us here with birthright citizenship. The IRS just happens to be the most tangible part of this scheme that we all face, but there is so much else that comes with repatriating that it really takes some time to fully realize and understand. It’s an evolutionary process here to re-train the brain and dispel these ideologies that have been embedded into each of us from birth.
David, your last statement last paragraph is correct. Either form of notification, exclusive from the other is all that is necessary to notify the IRS and Dept. of Treasury as to the change of your political status.
My personal opinion is that for a new person who is just emerging themselves to all of this new information would be in the best position to just send the cover letter with a copy of affidavit to the IRS for the time being. I detailed how these two discrete different types of documents compare and contrast above. Then, the individual needs to spend a good 6 months to a year educating themselves to make a determination as to what is the best fit for their personal situation. I wholeheartedly agree with one of your earlier statements that we should all strive to live without debt because, in effect, we are contracting with the banking institutions. The way I see it is that using the method of getting all of your money back at the end of each year (and still continuing to have the benefit of a tax return IF/WHEN needed) should afford a responsible individual to begin getting themselves out of debt in relatively short timeframe with the money they no longer contribute to the IRS.
Anyway, I think for a new student who is just following a prescribed methodology it’s beneficial for them to know that they do not have to file an RoE and that in exchange for not getting those 3 prior years back, they can continue to pay in then get funds back at the end of each year for the beneficial use of the tax return in hand. I wish I had known this when I was going thru the steps. I did the RoE on my own without anyone else’s advice and later really needed a tax return in order to obtain a business operating loan.
Best of luck with your site here. I hope that you will be able to help many people to recover from the fraud that is surrounding us here with birthright citizenship. The IRS just happens to be the most tangible part of this scheme that we all face, but there is so much else that comes with repatriating that it really takes some time to fully realize and understand. It’s an evolutionary process here to re-train the brain and dispel these ideologies that have been embedded into each of us from birth.
Quote from David on December 24, 2023, 10:24 amGreat information jgarland! As you mentioned it's so important for folks to know that many of these processes have multiple ways to achieve the goal. Your input is just what is needed to help start the conversation and have folks share what has worked for them and what hasn't worked. The directions on the IRS page is just one option and it may not guarantee success as one never knows what specific situation in individual is in or how the IRS will respond. Btw...there is a comment section at the bottom of the Internal Revenue Section of The Remedy area of the site where one can comment directly about the information on that particular page. If you'd like, you can post your comments there in addition to the forums to provide maximum exposure to your information. Again, thanks for the great information you're sharing.
Great information jgarland! As you mentioned it's so important for folks to know that many of these processes have multiple ways to achieve the goal. Your input is just what is needed to help start the conversation and have folks share what has worked for them and what hasn't worked. The directions on the IRS page is just one option and it may not guarantee success as one never knows what specific situation in individual is in or how the IRS will respond. Btw...there is a comment section at the bottom of the Internal Revenue Section of The Remedy area of the site where one can comment directly about the information on that particular page. If you'd like, you can post your comments there in addition to the forums to provide maximum exposure to your information. Again, thanks for the great information you're sharing.
Quote from sumahnee on June 10, 2024, 6:41 pmThank you jgarland for sharing this alternative suggestion and thank you David for this insightful conversation. As someone who has recently received passport and card after changing status to national, I'm cautiously taking action as I get clear on each process (and reasoning behind it). I'm also sharing my journey with a few family members and friends who each have unique work or financial situations.
This site is the best resource I've found after years of reading and listening to everything I could find related to "living in the private", "state national", etc.
This type of cohesive and concise information, with open and intelligent conversation and questions, has been sorely needed in the national movement.
Thank you so much for this resource.
Thank you jgarland for sharing this alternative suggestion and thank you David for this insightful conversation. As someone who has recently received passport and card after changing status to national, I'm cautiously taking action as I get clear on each process (and reasoning behind it). I'm also sharing my journey with a few family members and friends who each have unique work or financial situations.
This site is the best resource I've found after years of reading and listening to everything I could find related to "living in the private", "state national", etc.
This type of cohesive and concise information, with open and intelligent conversation and questions, has been sorely needed in the national movement.
Thank you so much for this resource.
